"Russia is our military-security choice; DCFTA is our economic choice., Armenian Deputy Foreign Minister Shavarsh Kocharyan.

Armenia was very negatively affected economically by the 2008 Georgia-Russia war, but as the fifth anniversary of the war approached it made a significant step forward in its relations with the European Union, and the sides have now agreed on the terms of an Association Agreement and a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area (DFCTA) agreement that many expect to provide an important stimulus to the Armenian economy.

Our correspondent Joseph d'Urso travelled to Yerevan to speak to Armenian Deputy Foreign Minister, Shavarsh Kocharyan about Armenian-EU releations, relations with Russia, and about war and peace in the Caucasus.

We are approaching the fifth anniversary of the Georgia-Russia war. What impact has this conflict had on Armenia?

The war had a serious negative economic effect on us because much of Armenia's trade takes place through Georgia - 75% to 80%, with 20-25% going through Iran. As you know, the borders with Azerbaijan and Turkey are closed, so our link to Georgia is very important. Through it we trade with the outside world.

Recently the possibility of reopening the railway link through Abkhazia, which would provide a direct link between Armenia and Russia, has been discussed. Is this important? Is there a prospect of it happening?

Of course it's important. It's much more effective to trade by railway, rather than by road. Whether it starts operating again doesn't depend on Armenia, it depends on Georgia, Abkhazia and Russia. If it starts running again it will be beneficial for all countries concerned. We would like it to be reopened, though whether that happens depends mainly on developments in the relationship between Russia and Georgia. All parties know that Armenia is interested in normalising relations.

What is the current status of Armenia's relationship with the EU?

Armenia is working towards an association agreement with the EU, and last month almost concluded negotiations toward a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area (DCFTA). These will be initialled in Vilnius later this year.

Is this a sign that Armenia has opted for a close relationship with the EU as apposed to Russia? The EU has made it clear that belonging to the DCFTA precludes membership of the Russian-led Eurasian Customs Union (ECU).

Of course Russia wants to make the Customs Union as large as possible, and it is important for them that Ukraine and Armenia at least declare that they want to be a part of it. The problem is that membership of the Customs Union is an obstacle to signing the DCFTA with the EU.

This is not a step in the membership process. There is no question of Armenia joining the EU, and people acknowledge that signing the association agreement or DCFTA is not necessarily a step towards becoming a member. This doesn't show that Armenian foreign policy is leaning more towards the EU or to Russia, it just shows Armenia sees more than one area of opportunity for economic development.

Russia still maintains a large military base in Gyumri in the west of Armenia. Is the decision to join the DCFTA not generating disapproval?

Russia is our military security choice, while the DCFTA is our economic choice. This is not a contradiction. In terms of security, Armenia is tied to Russia. We are a member of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO). But we also actively cooperate with NATO. Among the members of CSTO, only Armenia has sent its peacekeeping forces to the NATO peacekeeping missions of different parts of the world.

However, we have never said that we want to become a member of NATO - we are a member of CSTO. It is almost the same when it comes to economics. We are ready to harmonise our legislation with that of the EU and to share deep economic ties. But we have never said we want to become a member - this is the difference between Armenia and some other 'Eastern Partnership' countries.

Do you think the Minsk Group, which is attempting to find a solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh issue, is still a viable project?

The problem is not the Minsk group, the problem is the position of Azerbaijan. In its actions it contradicts the Madrid Principles, which Azerbaijan has accepted as a basis for the negotiations. Co-Chairs of Minsk Group have two main functions - to help the sides come to an agreement, and to make sure the 1994 ceasefire isn't broken. We have had no progress in the first direction because of Azerbaijan.

An example of this is when the Presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan met in 2011 in Kazan, Russia. This time everyone accepted that there will be progress based on the agreement that had been reached before the meeting, but again Azerbaijan refused. It is obvious that there cannot be progress without confidence between parties.

How might that confidence be improved?

Confidence can be achieved by doing all the suggestions that are made by the co-chairs of the Minsk group. Firstly, withdraw snipers from the line of conflict. Secondly, try to prepare the societies for peace not war.

Bellicose speeches are made every day in Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijanis try to maintain enmity between the societies. One presidential statement said that all Armenians all over the world are enemies of Azerbaijan. Then there was the Safarov case, in which an Azerbaijani lieutenant murdered an Armenian officer in his sleep with an axe in Budapest and was subsequently released and pardoned in Baku. There is also the case of Akrim Aylisi, a writer who has been persecuted for writing about massacres of Armenians in Baku.

How much faith do you have in the co-chairs of the Minsk group (Russia, USA and France)?

All three co-chair countries are also permanent members of the UN Security Council, which gives me great faith in the process - you don't see this is any other conflict resolution group.

Unlike Azerbaijan Armenian sides share the proposals of the co-chair countries, but if the other party refuses to compromise, what should we do? From the Armenian perspective, Azerbaijan should act more responsibly and refuse from the position 'everything or nothing'.

So you think the Minsk group is here to stay?

Yes, it will continue. All three countries, as the permanent members of UN Security Council, are responsible for the stability and security of also our region. All three countries always speak about a peaceful resolution of  the conflict. Azerbaijan wants to avoid this format because it contributes to the peace maintenance. Next year it will be 20 years since the ceasefire started. It has been kept without international mediators or peacekeeping forces thanks to also Minsk Group Co-Chairmanship Format,as well as the Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office.

What message would you give to people in the European Union about this conflict?

NKR is a well-established, democratic state, and I urge everybody to visit Artsakh and see the real situation. We also need humanitarian contacts between parties, which can facilitate the reduction of hatreds.

Should Europe be worried about the prospect of another war?

Of course they should be worried to some extent, but there are factors, Minsk format and membership of Armenia to the CSTO,  that  make war less possible. However, the co-chairs, EU and OSCE countries should condemn the militant and racist statements which disseminate hatred, because if they don't then they decrease the possibility of maintaining a peace.


Joseph d'Urso interviewed Shavarsh Kocharyan in Yerevan on 5 August 2013 for commonspace.eu

(c) commonspace.eu

Related articles

Editor's choice
News
Germany accuses Russia of cyberattacks and disinformation campaign

Germany accuses Russia of cyberattacks and disinformation campaign

The German government holds Russia responsible for a cyberattack on German air traffic control, and for targeted disinformation campaigns before the last federal election. According to the German Foreign Office in Berlin, the incidents could be clearly attributed to the Russian military intelligence service, the GRU. In response, the Russian ambassador to Berlin was summoned to the Foreign Ministry. "We have been observing a massive increase in threatening hybrid activities by Russia for some time now," a spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry stated. These range from disinformation campaigns and espionage to cyberattacks and sabotage attempts. The aim is to divide society, sow distrust, and undermine confidence in democratic institutions. The spokesperson added that with these actions, Russia is "very concretely threatening our security, not only through its war of aggression against Ukraine, but also here in Germany."  The Foreign Ministry spokesperson explained that the cyberattack on air traffic control in August 2024 was clearly attributed to the hacker collective "APT28," known as "Fancy Bear," and to the responsibility of the Russian military intelligence service, the GRU. Furthermore, it could now be "conclusively stated" that Russia had attempted "to influence and destabilize both the last Federal election and the ongoing internal affairs of the Federal Republic of Germany." There was "absolutely irrefutable evidence" for this". The so-called "Storm 1516" campaign, which has been running since 2024, is allegedly backed by "reliable information" that the Moscow-based think tank "Center for Geopolitical Expertise" is behind it. The Center is also said to be supported by Russian military intelligence. Its primary aim is to influence democratic elections in the West. (Click the image to read more).
Editor's choice
News
NATO Chief says war is on Europe's doorstep, and warns against complacency

NATO Chief says war is on Europe's doorstep, and warns against complacency

Russia could attack a NATO country within the next five years, the Secretary General of NATO, Mark Rutte, said in a stark new warning. "NATO's own defences can hold for now," Rutte warned in Berlin, but conflict was "next door" to Europe, and he feared "too many are quietly complacent, and too many don't feel the urgency, too many believe that time is on our side. "Russia is already escalating its covert campaign against our societies," Rutte said in a speech in Germany. "We must be prepared for the scale of war our grandparents or great-grandparents endured." Earlier this month, Russia's President Vladimir Putin said his country was not planning to go to war with Europe, but it was ready "right now" if Europe wanted to - or started a war. But similar reassurances were given by Moscow in 2022, just before 200,000 Russian troops crossed the border and invaded Ukraine. Putin has accused European countries of hindering US efforts to bring peace in Ukraine - a reference to the role Ukraine's European allies have recently played in trying to change a US peace plan to end the war, whose initial draft was seen as favouring Russia. But Putin was not sincere, Nato's secretary-general said in the German capital, Berlin. Supporting Ukraine, he added, was a guarantee for European security. "Just imagine if Putin got his way; Ukraine under the boot of Russian occupation, his forces pressing against a longer border with Nato, and the significantly increased risk of an armed attack against us." Russia's economy has been on a war footing for more than three years now - its factories churn out ever more supplies of drones, missiles and artillery shells. According to a recent report by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, Russia has been producing each month around 150 tanks, 550 infantry fighting vehicles, 120 Lancet drones and more than 50 artillery pieces. The UK, and most of its Western allies, are simply not anywhere near this point. Analysts say it would take years for Western Europe's factories to come close to matching Russia's mass-production of weapons. "Allied defence spending and production must rise rapidly, our armed forces must have what they need to keep us safe," the Nato chief said.

Popular

Editor's choice
News
Germany accuses Russia of cyberattacks and disinformation campaign

Germany accuses Russia of cyberattacks and disinformation campaign

The German government holds Russia responsible for a cyberattack on German air traffic control, and for targeted disinformation campaigns before the last federal election. According to the German Foreign Office in Berlin, the incidents could be clearly attributed to the Russian military intelligence service, the GRU. In response, the Russian ambassador to Berlin was summoned to the Foreign Ministry. "We have been observing a massive increase in threatening hybrid activities by Russia for some time now," a spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry stated. These range from disinformation campaigns and espionage to cyberattacks and sabotage attempts. The aim is to divide society, sow distrust, and undermine confidence in democratic institutions. The spokesperson added that with these actions, Russia is "very concretely threatening our security, not only through its war of aggression against Ukraine, but also here in Germany."  The Foreign Ministry spokesperson explained that the cyberattack on air traffic control in August 2024 was clearly attributed to the hacker collective "APT28," known as "Fancy Bear," and to the responsibility of the Russian military intelligence service, the GRU. Furthermore, it could now be "conclusively stated" that Russia had attempted "to influence and destabilize both the last Federal election and the ongoing internal affairs of the Federal Republic of Germany." There was "absolutely irrefutable evidence" for this". The so-called "Storm 1516" campaign, which has been running since 2024, is allegedly backed by "reliable information" that the Moscow-based think tank "Center for Geopolitical Expertise" is behind it. The Center is also said to be supported by Russian military intelligence. Its primary aim is to influence democratic elections in the West. (Click the image to read more).